i have received the following request and as i am unable to help, i am turning to you.
apparently they relate to the 1925 prediction.. thanks, doug.
could you provide me with a photocopy of the following publications of the watchtower society?.
I have received the following request and as I am unable to help, I am turning to you. Apparently they relate to the 1925 prediction.
Thanks, Doug
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it is not “preach the good news” nor is it “believe in jesus and get saved” neither is it “believe in the governing body of jehovah’s witnesses and get saved” although in practice they do teach this.
no, everything they claim depends on a belief in another doctrine which logic decrees cannot be found in the bible.
the leadership of jehovah’s witnesses put absolute faith in a protestant doctrine which is given a latin name, sola scriptura, meaning “by scripture alone”.. good evidence of the governing body believing in the primacy of this doctrine was when being questioned by the australian royal commission, they resorted to the ‘authority’ of scripture to defend their stance on having “two witnesses” when they are investigating child abuse cases.throughout the hearing they paraded their naive trust in the bible as the highest possible authority proudly ignoring the fact that most people regard it as having been superseded by modern scientific evaluations of what is true.. .
I find it interesting that the Watchtower accepts the Bible Canon as suggested by the Trinitarian Athanasius and later agreed to by the Church in the 4th century.
Not that there is one agreed "The Bible". Consider the range of views by the Church Fathers, the canons of the 4th Century codices, or modern canons such as the Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Syrian, Ethiopian, etc., etc.
There was no canon of Hebrew Scriptures in the first century and the NT writers quoted from the range of LXX versions available to them plus writings that were later not canonised (1 Enoch, etc., etc.).
No one knows what was initially written (the autographs) as the text underwent innumerable deliberate and accidental changes. Hence scholars created the term "inscripturation".
The Watchtower changed the text to suit its purposes. In doing so, the Watchtower is continuing the practice that has taken place ever since the texts were initially written thousands of years ago.
Only the Roman Catholic Church has formally voted on the Canon. Protestants accept their Canon on the basis of Tradition.
Doug
i am looking for someone to please clear this up.
there are scriptures like in the 1 corinthians chapter 5 that refer to jesus as “our lord jesus”.
the lord is jehovah, why does that scripture in 1 corinthians refer to the lord as jesus?
Thanks Ruby,
In talking about divine humans, check the idea of Theosis ("Deification") as taught by the Orthodox Churches.
Simply put Theosis Orthodox into a search engine.
Syrian Christianity is unlike the Protestant version. And check the Syriac Bible:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac_versions_of_the_Bible
Doug
i am looking for someone to please clear this up.
there are scriptures like in the 1 corinthians chapter 5 that refer to jesus as “our lord jesus”.
the lord is jehovah, why does that scripture in 1 corinthians refer to the lord as jesus?
I understand that Paul would apply "Lord" to Jesus for the same reason that he used expressions such as "Son of God".
These were titles that belonged to the Emperor of the Roman Empire. It is thus clear what Paul was telling his Gentile hearers. The word Yahweh (YHWH) had no meaning at all to his Gentile hearers.
It is not valid to associate 1 Corinthians with the Gospel According to John. The Gospel was written several decades after Paul's death by a community of Jesus-followers who were much later and different to Paul's followers.
Their Christology is designated as "High Christology" whereas the Christological model employed by Paul saw Jesus as subjected to the Father.
It is of interest to note that whereas Paul remained a faithful Jew throughout the whole of his life, and he remained subject to the jurisdiction of the Jewish hierarchy, the Johannine community, which was responsible for the Gospel, was evicted, presumably because of their High Christology.
Doug
are there any good scholarly texts on revelation that aren't written from the perspective of a believer?
whenever i try to find anything i can barely get more than a few sentences in before the supposed exegesis starts talking about how it applies to us living today and how we all need to get right with jesus.
i want to find a text that isn't coloured by the preconceptions that come with believing it's all real..
Jehovah lol,
Although I have not read it yet (should arrive shortly) one book that holds promise for me:
"Soteriology as Motivation in the Apocalypse of John", by Alexander Stewart.
At this stage, I cannot say whether I recommend it or not.
The following is a summary of the book.
Doug
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John did not write the Apocalypse in order to provide a detailed time-table of events that would unfold thousands of years in the future. Instead, John wrote to affect and move his hearers at the end of the first century-to motivate them to reject idolatrous compromise with the surrounding cultural and political institutions and overcome through repentance, worship, witness, perseverance, and obedience. How does the Apocalypse of John accomplish this motivation and persuade its hearers to adopt a course of action that would put their present lives, income, and security in jeopardy? This monograph employs Stephen Toulmin's model of argumentation analysis to study John's explicit and implicit motivational argumentation and to argue that the two primary grounds for John's argumentation are soteriological. Hearers are motivated positively by the promise of future salvation and negatively by warnings of future judgment. In addition to this main claim, this monograph will (1) argue that the Apocalypse of John is a thoroughly rhetorical text; (2) highlight the centrality of logos, or logical argumentation, in John's argumentation; (3) demonstrate the general applicability of Toulmin's model of argumentation analysis to biblical texts; (4) argue that one's systematic theology of motivation or salvation must be grounded in a comprehensive analysis of the actual motivational argumentation within a text; and (5) explore some of the theological questions raised by the use of soteriology as motivation.
are there any good scholarly texts on revelation that aren't written from the perspective of a believer?
whenever i try to find anything i can barely get more than a few sentences in before the supposed exegesis starts talking about how it applies to us living today and how we all need to get right with jesus.
i want to find a text that isn't coloured by the preconceptions that come with believing it's all real..
Why pick on the writer of Revelation as being on a drug-induced trip? He was writing in a style of which there are other examples.
What about the creative imaginings of others, especially Paul? He was a mystic and his ideas and opinions are fanciful.
Could we go further and say that religion is all a matter of superstitious belief in the supernatural?
Doug
are there any good scholarly texts on revelation that aren't written from the perspective of a believer?
whenever i try to find anything i can barely get more than a few sentences in before the supposed exegesis starts talking about how it applies to us living today and how we all need to get right with jesus.
i want to find a text that isn't coloured by the preconceptions that come with believing it's all real..
The ekklesias along the road from Ephesus to Laodicea were all "believers", as was the writer. He was telling them to hang on to their convictions and to behave accordingly, despite the oppressions they were experiencing.
The whole of Revelation is a letter. It was written to give a message that meant something to its recipients at the time it was written and delivered. The culmination -- the Coming -- is repeatedly said to be happening "soon".
There was no idea of giving a message to people living in the future. This is completely in keeping with every other part of the Scriptures. In every instance, the original writer was addressing their own immediate community with the intention of evoking their obedience through superstition, hope, and fear.
Today's religious writers and leaders address today's communities. They are not writing to or speaking to some generation that will be living in thousands of years time.
The Bible writers were not writing to us. The Bible writers were not writing about us.
Doug
the capital of biblical israel was samaria.. jerusalem was the capital of judah/benjamin.. the modern state of israel is not named after the biblical nation of israel.
it is named after a man.
it is named after jacob, the lion of judah, who was later given the name of israel.
The capital of Biblical Israel was Samaria.
Jerusalem was the capital of Judah/Benjamin.
The modern state of Israel is not named after the Biblical nation of Israel. It is named after a man. It is named after Jacob, the lion of Judah, who was later given the name of Israel
Because symbol for the tribe of Jacob is a lion, the flag of Jerusalem features the lion.
Doug
if there were only one god, why do we encounter the expression, "most high god"?.
is this not indicative of polytheism, and of levels (or degrees) of god-ness?.
doug .
If there were only one God, why do we encounter the expression, "Most High God"?
Is this not indicative of polytheism, and of levels (or degrees) of god-ness?
Doug
the following is from “beyond the texts: an archaeological portrait of ancient israel and judah”, pages 497-499, by william dever,.
religion played an important role in all early societies, and cultic practices (if not beliefs) are often reflected in material culture remains.
in israel and judah of the ninth–eighth century [bce] we have a number of both public and private cultic installations.
The following is from “Beyond the Texts: An Archaeological Portrait of Ancient Israel and Judah”, pages 497-499, by William Dever,
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Religion played an important role in all early societies, and cultic practices (if not beliefs) are often reflected in material culture remains. In Israel and Judah of the ninth–eighth century [BCE] we have a number of both public and private cultic installations. …. From Iron [Age] IIB at Dan on the northern border there is a “high place” that features a raised platform 60 by 60 feet, with steps leading up to it and remains of a large four-horned altar in the forecourt. An adjoining tripartite structure (perhaps later) had a small stone altar and three iron shovels in one room. Also in the sacred precinct was a large olive-pressing installation, a house with domestic pottery and an oxhead figurine, a bronze scepter head, a painted offering stand, both male and female figurines of Phoenician style, and a faience die. A much smaller bāmâ with five standing stones (maṣṣēbôt) was found in the outer plaza of the city gate.
The only other full-fledged Iron [Age] II sanctuary we have is the tripartite temple at Arad in the northwest corner of the fortress. The temple was constructed in Stratum X of the ninth–eighth century [BCE] and was then altered in Stratum VIII in what may have been attempts at religious reforms that included abandoning the altar in the outer court and burying the two or three maṣṣēbôt of the inner sanctum. In the outer courtyard there was an altar of undressed stones, at the foot of which was found a bronze lion weight and two shallow bowls with the letters qoph and kaph, probably an abbreviation for qôdeš kôhănîm, “holy for the priests.” Two stylized horned altars flanked the entrance to the inner sanctum. … The Stratum X temple went out of use in the late eighth century. … Among the Arad ostraca was one (no. 15) that refers to the “temple [bêt] of Yahweh,” which probably refers to this temple [at Arad] rather than the one in Jerusalem. Other ostraca mention the names of known priestly families. The temple is out of use by Stratum VII, perhaps as a result of cult reforms.
In addition to these monumental remains, we have a number of household shrines of the ninth–eighth century. … They feature various combinations of small stone altars, cult stands, kernoi and other libation vessels, rattles, censers, both zoomorphic and female figurines, miniature furniture and vessels, pots for cooking and feasting, seals, and amulets.
All these vessels are appropriate for the family and household cults that we have taken to be characteristic of the varieties of “Yahwism” that characterized Israelite and Judahite religion in the Iron II period (and earlier). The precise theological concepts cannot always be inferred from the archaeological remains, even when extensive.
In practice, however, the focus is clearly seen, and it requires no sophisticated theory to comprehend it. It all has to do with survival—the ultimate concern of virtually all religions. This entails seeking the favor of the gods by prayers, invocations, and appropriate rituals, placating them by sacrifice, returning their gifts and rendering thanks, invoking their continued blessings by the use of sympathetic magic and feasting, and, of course, aligning oneself with them so as to participate in the “good life,” life in accord with nature as the creation of the gods and the arena of their activity.
It is now clear from the archaeological evidence that it was not the orthodox Yahwism of the late literary tradition, sometimes regarded imprecisely as “official” or “state” religion, that prevailed in the Iron II era. It was rather what Albertz has called “poly-Yahwism,” the “internal religious pluralism” that is so obvious in the typical family and household cults.
Now it is becoming clear that a cult of [the goddess] Asherah flourished, in both domestic and wider contexts, even to the extent of regarding her as Yahweh’s consort in some circles. Thus the veneration of Asherah can be understood not as “idolatry” but as one aspect of multifaceted Yahwistic practices.
An increasing number of both biblicists and archaeologists identify the Judean pillar-base figurines that begin in the late eighth century (after the 732–721 destructions in the north) as representations of the old Canaanite mother goddess Asherah. That is, these terra-cotta female figurines, of which we have hundreds of examples, are not simply votives or human figurines. They are evidence of a widespread, popular cult of Asherah, no doubt persistent until the end of the monarchy.
